Does anyone more familiar with Hurd know how they addressed performance issues encountered by other Mach-based kernels? I remember reading that one of Mach's bottlenecks was validating that each IPC message had proper permissions/access when sending them between processes due to the large number and frequency of messages.
What even is a 20% delta in performance? Like a five year old difference in hardware design.
If I could get a micro kernel with a better security profile than Linux, that doesn’t sound so bad. I could easily be using a ten year old chip for my day to day browsing and probably wouldn’t notice.
If anything, Mach style IPC has gotten worse because of the greater overhead if kernel/user transitions. Spectre really did a number on context switching overhead.
I'm not a Hurd contributor ( or any OS kernel / library ).
I'm not sure this holds today. One example I can see is related to crypto. We used to have specific hardware for computing cryptography functions but it's now handled directly in standard hardware and the software has not evolved ( but it's been faster and faster to compute checksum functions )
While I upvoted this, as being true for the general population, for me Linux has made it on the desktop (and laptop) much more than 2 decades ago, around 2003, when the remaining problems that had forced me to use dual-booting with Windows had been solved (i.e. when it became possible in Linux to play movies, read DVDs and use TV tuners). When that happened, I wiped out Windows from my computers.
If you have a pro to help you, already for a long time Linux has been fine on the desktop for anyone. My parents, over 80 years old, have used Linux on their PCs for many years, and they did not even know what "Linux" is. That was possible because I installed and configured for them the operating system and all the applications they needed for reading and writing documents, Internet browsing, e-mail, music listening and movie watching etc.
Windows is easy only because it comes preinstalled. I have installed Windows at work on many kinds of computers and during installation I have encountered much more problems impossible to solve for a non-expert than when installing Linux.
As a sign in the window of a tiny shop in my quiet suburb says "Laptop and phone repairs - Windows, Linux and MacOS". If that doesn't count, I don't know what else could.
However the recent success of gaming-related distros such as SteamOS and Bazzite seem to be succeeding where Usability-focused distros such as Mint, Pop!, and Zorin couldn't get deep traction
This should be a lesson about providing a product versus providing a technology.
Ubuntu is "like Windows but not" which is mostly relevant to people boycotting Windows. Steam Deck is "a gamebox" which people who already like games might want to buy. Bazzite is "a thing that turns your computer into a gamebox." Of course, people don't actually want gameboxes either - they want to play games - but it's a few steps closer.
It just...has made it. Plenty of power users just use it as their primary OS. I think official figures under-estimate it because many people daily-driving will spoof user agents of other OSes.
Ah, Android, with a userspace based on Java, Kotlin, C and C++ standard libraries, Android native APIs, without anything related to GNU/Linux, unless it is a rooted device, or one gets to package a full Linux userspace as an APK, which isn't fully compatible due to security enforcement mechanisms.
I would look into those statistics regarding desktop world wide adoption, distribution per OS.
It gives a Linux experience within the security sandbox from Android, which is why there are limitations when using it on regular devices, via PlayStore.
Also it requires working around the NDK limitations on available POSIX APIs.
Eric S. Raymond opines that now that Microsoft makes its profits mainly from Azure, some product owner in Microsoft will be allowed to enshittify Windows for collection short-term profit, thus paving way for Linux on the desktop.
First there will be the Desktop Linux of the year
breakthrough. Evil folks say it will coincide with
the end of the world via a total global catastrophy
but these people don't understand beauty - such as
TempleOS, the most perfect OS of all times.
Next year will be the year of GNU Hurd, as well as
The Desktop Linux Year and people really using
HaikuOS on real hardware for years. You read it here
first!
Cool to finally see some small silly tech stuff here that isn't trying to make money.
You are calling a Linux (sorry, GNU/Linux) killer small silly stuff?
Of course it’s a large and complex project in terms of code, but in terms of industrial impact it’s unlikely to ever amount to much.
Linux just has too much momentum and there are too few real benefits to Hurd.
I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as GNU/Linux, is in fact, just Linux.
Are you saying that Hurd will also kill Google/Linux?
Yeah GNU hasn't really been involved for a long time. It's Mozilla/Linux in reality. Not to mention the totally GNU-free distributions, like Alpine.
No, what they're referring to as a GNU/Linux is in fact GNU Hurd.
This is not GNU/Linux. GNU Hurd is a totally different kernel.
It seems Samuel Thibault is still there, sweet.
ps: some slides from earlier this year https://fosdem.org/2026/events/attachments/7FZXHF-updates_on...
full vid here https://fosdem.org/2026/schedule/event/7FZXHF-updates_on_gnu...
Does anyone more familiar with Hurd know how they addressed performance issues encountered by other Mach-based kernels? I remember reading that one of Mach's bottlenecks was validating that each IPC message had proper permissions/access when sending them between processes due to the large number and frequency of messages.
Is that a bottleneck anymore? Maybe something that was appreciable in 1994 isn't a big performance hit in 2026?
Isn't it even worse now? The faster computers get, the more that software-induced bottlenecks hurt.
I could see just powering through because modern hardware is fast enough to do so being an option.
Adding 20% to a 10 second operation is a lot longer on a wall clock than adding 20% to a 1 second operation.
What even is a 20% delta in performance? Like a five year old difference in hardware design.
If I could get a micro kernel with a better security profile than Linux, that doesn’t sound so bad. I could easily be using a ten year old chip for my day to day browsing and probably wouldn’t notice.
If anything, Mach style IPC has gotten worse because of the greater overhead if kernel/user transitions. Spectre really did a number on context switching overhead.
I'm not a Hurd contributor ( or any OS kernel / library ).
I'm not sure this holds today. One example I can see is related to crypto. We used to have specific hardware for computing cryptography functions but it's now handled directly in standard hardware and the software has not evolved ( but it's been faster and faster to compute checksum functions )
I mean, every major arch has crypto specific acceleration instructions.
Is there reason to think they've addressed them?
> I plan to build bootable images and boot the kernel on Apple M1
GuixSD with GNU Hurd would be a really fun way to repurpose an old MBP.
I hope Hurd has its day. Maybe in 100 years or something.
Instead of rewriting Bun, maybe Anthropic should have thrown some tokens at finishing Hurd.
We'd have to name it Turd then.
That'd be GNU/Turd to you!
Relevant xkcd: https://xkcd.com/1508/
Fun fact: Duke Nukem Forever shipped before GNU Hurd.
Maybe they are still in the same level of forever. Oh well.
Hurd will have its day once Linux makes it on the desktop :-)
While I upvoted this, as being true for the general population, for me Linux has made it on the desktop (and laptop) much more than 2 decades ago, around 2003, when the remaining problems that had forced me to use dual-booting with Windows had been solved (i.e. when it became possible in Linux to play movies, read DVDs and use TV tuners). When that happened, I wiped out Windows from my computers.
If you have a pro to help you, already for a long time Linux has been fine on the desktop for anyone. My parents, over 80 years old, have used Linux on their PCs for many years, and they did not even know what "Linux" is. That was possible because I installed and configured for them the operating system and all the applications they needed for reading and writing documents, Internet browsing, e-mail, music listening and movie watching etc.
Windows is easy only because it comes preinstalled. I have installed Windows at work on many kinds of computers and during installation I have encountered much more problems impossible to solve for a non-expert than when installing Linux.
As a sign in the window of a tiny shop in my quiet suburb says "Laptop and phone repairs - Windows, Linux and MacOS". If that doesn't count, I don't know what else could.
Linux has made it to the desktop, packaged inside VMs served by Apple, Microsoft and Google.
That's not really what everyone means.
However the recent success of gaming-related distros such as SteamOS and Bazzite seem to be succeeding where Usability-focused distros such as Mint, Pop!, and Zorin couldn't get deep traction
This should be a lesson about providing a product versus providing a technology.
Ubuntu is "like Windows but not" which is mostly relevant to people boycotting Windows. Steam Deck is "a gamebox" which people who already like games might want to buy. Bazzite is "a thing that turns your computer into a gamebox." Of course, people don't actually want gameboxes either - they want to play games - but it's a few steps closer.
No, but that is what they will ever get from OEMs selling PCs at computer stores used by normies.
Also lets not forget those distros play Windows games, because hardly any studio bothers with native Linux games.
They play both, which is much better for adoption anyway? And it's contributed substantial improvements back to wine and other projects.
It is hardly any different that saying gaming on Linux is great because MAME exists.
Game studios will keep buying Windows, using Visual Studio, and let Valve do the needful.
Additionally people keep acting as if Valve and Gabe will be around forever, they won't, none of us will.
It just...has made it. Plenty of power users just use it as their primary OS. I think official figures under-estimate it because many people daily-driving will spoof user agents of other OSes.
And there's Android.
Ah, Android, with a userspace based on Java, Kotlin, C and C++ standard libraries, Android native APIs, without anything related to GNU/Linux, unless it is a rooted device, or one gets to package a full Linux userspace as an APK, which isn't fully compatible due to security enforcement mechanisms.
I would look into those statistics regarding desktop world wide adoption, distribution per OS.
People using Linux in 1992 would say something similar to people using any of the current flavours of Linux.
No they wouldn't, given that the only reason I got into Linux was the lackluster POSIX support on Windows NT.
Anyone who wants it can have Termux which gives you a full Linux experience under Android with GNU tools if you want it, though.
No it does not.
It gives a Linux experience within the security sandbox from Android, which is why there are limitations when using it on regular devices, via PlayStore.
Also it requires working around the NDK limitations on available POSIX APIs.
Oh come on. :-)
Linux is not userspace. Linux is a kernel, and android is a parallel fork of the kernel. So android is a version of linux but is not GNU/Linux.
Android/Linux, if you will. We dont have to be shy this.
Yeah, exactly because of that, lets not do victory laps for a kernel.
GNU/Linux, the Linux desktop, has zero relevance on Android.
No one, not a single person, buying Android tablets and phones at places like MediaMarkt, cares about GNU/Linux Desktop.
They care about what apps via PlayStore, Samsung, Huawei and Xiomi stores, they can use, just like all normies.
Linux hit 10% desktop usage recently
Not really, that was a fluke, still below 10%, although getting closer with 7.53%.
https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide
Both numbers are big, no? Especially given the complete dominance of linux in many other settings.
Yeah, if we ignore Windows 70%, and Mac's 20% of desktop share.
Eric S. Raymond opines that now that Microsoft makes its profits mainly from Azure, some product owner in Microsoft will be allowed to enshittify Windows for collection short-term profit, thus paving way for Linux on the desktop.
https://x.com/esrtweet/status/2084605702203424896
First there will be the Desktop Linux of the year breakthrough. Evil folks say it will coincide with the end of the world via a total global catastrophy but these people don't understand beauty - such as TempleOS, the most perfect OS of all times.
Next year will be the year of GNU Hurd, as well as The Desktop Linux Year and people really using HaikuOS on real hardware for years. You read it here first!
Wow.